Curse

garethporlest18 · Nov 13, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

See, this is what I don't get. This is nothing new! I've had this happen quite a few times back when Factions came out. Just random mobs tend to spot you even off the radar, especially if you already encountered them, and half your party died. The second you go and try to res them, the mobs start running full speed from off the radar straight at you. They know exactly where you are and what you're doing, sometimes. This has happened to me a few times in Kaineng, and once in SF.

I've had lots of weird quriks with the AI long before this update. We can't write all this off as screw-ups from the recent update. No doubt, they still need to be fixed.

No no, sorry I have to specify things now, trying to do multiple things at once. This is EVERY group I encounter in NF. They all no matter how far you run, how long you wait ( you could wait a certain time before and they'd be fine) or who they are aggroed too (sometimes they only aggro on one person, so another can go in and rez, happened in FoW) they all come. It got worse since NF came at least for me, I don't know why I'm singled out like that but that's what happens.

Cassandra · Nov 13, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Anyone else noticed this other darn behaviour? If you see a patrol crossing, with a ranger in the group laying down a spirit, you can let the patrol go away without aggroing anyone, they go away, and as soon as you attack the SPIRIT the ranger made you'll see the entire group running towards you, from circles away O.o

This AI is frustrating...

xXa1 · Nov 13, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

frustrating. that is how the new ai affects the customers, whether they think it is easier or harder or whatever, the common fact remains that it has made the pve experience frustrating.

i dont understand why anet had to make the pve ai more "human". in pvp, you deal with 12 people at most, not waves and waves of mobs. no. pve is designed differently from pvp. ai is never supposed to be in pvp so there was no reason to design the ai to act like it was required to defend itself in pvp. and if ever that was what they wanted then a general rebalance of all mobs in all pve maps is also required otherwise you end up with masses and masses of crazy aggro.

and frustrated customers. customers who have already quit the game in frustration.

so i don't care if the ai made life easy or hard or whatever. we can all say it made it frustrating and anet needs to fix that. not stay the course until they bleed customers away. already i have gotten frustrated with the game. its just stupid, totally stupid.

Effendi Westland · Nov 13, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXa1

ai is never supposed to be in pvp so there was no reason to design the ai to act like it was required to defend itself in pvp.

I think Anet intended the AI to be like this as they put AI in pvp...Heroes in HA and GvG, so you might be wrong there.

Zehnchu · Nov 13, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

See, this is what I don't get. This is nothing new! I've had this happen quite a few times back when Factions came out. Just random mobs tend to spot you even off the radar, especially if you already encountered them, and half your party died. The second you go and try to res them, the mobs start running full speed from off the radar straight at you. They know exactly where you are and what you're doing, sometimes. This has happened to me a few times in Kaineng, and once in SF.

I've had lots of weird quriks with the AI long before this update. We can't write all this off as screw-ups from the recent update. No doubt, they still need to be fixed.

The rubberbanding issue has gotten a lot worse, I've noticed. Not just with the NF release, but about 2 weeks before that. Just seems to get worse and worse. I've had times where I will run half a zone before I realize there's no enemies, and my heroes are stuck 3-4 radars away. I then sometimes have to run all the way back, and just when I get within range, I bounce back in the middle of my heroes, like I never left. Very odd.

QFT

been this way since Factions came out, that I’ve gotten used to it.

ericdanie · Nov 13, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

QFT

been this way since Factions came out, that I’ve gotten used to it.

I actually thought this was the only use for Rebirth in PvE: to ressurect a party member that is dead within danger zone of monsters and bring him to your safety, away from the thing called DANGER ZONE. With that, the Danger Zone is a mere indication of what is earshot range, and needs to be called from now on Earshot Zone. If you lose half party, you will all have to die to regroup, instead of rebirthing. Now, how you can manage that in Shrineless areas? G'luck

Myria · Nov 13, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

See, this is what I don't get. This is nothing new! I've had this happen quite a few times back when Factions came out. Just random mobs tend to spot you even off the radar, especially if you already encountered them, and half your party died. The second you go and try to res them, the mobs start running full speed from off the radar straight at you. They know exactly where you are and what you're doing, sometimes. This has happened to me a few times in Kaineng, and once in SF.

This used to happen sometimes, yes, but it was never a consistent thing before the AI update.

My favorite method of leveling up heroes has been to take a couple of them and a couple of henchies, go outside of Senji's to The Skyway, and kill anything that moves -- rinse and repeat as needed. That area's pretty easy, but even there a few low level heroes in a group of five or six, plus the general and constant risk of agroing more than one Jade Brotherhood mob no matter what you do, can sometimes spell disaster. When things start going belly-up, I run, usually with a couple of surviving heroes/henchies in tow.

Prior to the release of Nightfall I'd done the Skyway rounds literally hundreds of times. When something went wrong the Jade Brotherhood would generally chase you about halfway over the nearest bridge. If you went any further than that they'd give up and go back to what they were doing. Wait until they've wandered off, go rebirth the dead henchies -- no biggie. Now they chase you over the nearest bridge and halfway over the bridge after that, they don't wander away for eons, and when they do they auto re-agro on you the second you come withing radar range. Fleeing a bad situation has become pointless, if you don't have the firepower left to take out the mob you will never get close enough to rebirth anyone. To put it mildly, this takes a strategic element out of the game and renders anything save a res you can use in battle, basically meaning a res sig, worthless.

Yes this used to happen occasionally, but so ocassionally that when it did happen it was a serious "What the...?!?" moment. Since the AI change it has happened every time I've had to flee, at least five - six times in the last week or so.

Quote:

The rubberbanding issue has gotten a lot worse, I've noticed.

Actually the rubber-banding has gotten much better for me. For the first week or so after Nightfall's release, any time I stopped to cast BotM I teleported back anywhere from dozens to hundreds of feet back. Skill delays were getting seriously annoying, and the dreaded 007 reared its ugly head a couple of times. In the last couple of days things have gotten much better, though. No teleporting back every time I stop and no skills deciding to activate whenever they get around to it. Offhand I'd say the server load is starting to level off.

garethporlest18 · Nov 13, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

To further the chasing issue. In Nightfallen Jahai, I was chest running with 3 Hero's to die for me. So a chest was by the Onslaught boss, I sent the Hero's in got the chest, they died before I got out so they chased me for about a 1 second not chasing me to far. I went down by the mesmer boss, to the southeast towards the assassin titan boss, then towards the paragon boss in the way south near the entrance. Didn't find no more chests so went back to the west by the portal to the Jahai city.

Well as I was on my way back, I had to pass by the Onslaught boss, whose about 10 minutes before, aggro I had. So I'm running towards them, about 2 aggro circles away....THE BOSS AND THE REST COME AFTER ME AGAIN! and chase for me for a little bit, I got away alright but still that is ridiculous beyond all belief. It was almost 10 minutes I had broken their aggro and I was over 4 radar (or compass) lengths away from that damn group, there was no reason they still had to be locked on to me. Could be a bug, I'm not sure but it was only that group.

Also Scythes use a speed enhancement and will follow you for a minimum of 5 aggro circles and a maximum of about 8.

If Anet ever fixes this stuff, well they will get an apology from me for being so cross on this subject. But it's kind of hard not to and kind of entertaining to see stuff like this happening, annoying but entertaining.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Nov 13, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Do I like the new Ai No, have I learned to deal with it yes.

After playing all day Saturday leveling up my heroes things started to finally click. I still don't like the Ai but it is manageable, so far. With the new Ai just using henchmen will not cut it any more heroes are a must. My W/Mo has been running around with a healer, mm and nuker hero and a healer, holy, motivation and earth hench. Things are fun again. The critters still run but not very far

I do wish things would go back to the way they were but I don't see it in the future. So I'm dealing with the Bar Room Brawl fighting style we have now.

Sli Ander · Nov 13, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I don't have nightfall, and it just struck me that I'm one of the ones thats had almost no trouble with the stated issues. I've had some rubber banding but that's about it. Do you guys think its possible that nightfall was initiated with a different 'base ai' that reacted differently to the update than the older, much tweaked prophecies/factions?

Most of the people with problems seem to have problems in Nightfall or with characters from elona, while I (the one that doesn't have it) haven't been affected that much.

But that's just my two cents

WasAGuest · Nov 13, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

I don't have nightfall, and it just struck me that I'm one of the ones thats had almost no trouble with the stated issues. I've had some rubber banding but that's about it. Do you guys think its possible that nightfall was initiated with a different 'base ai' that reacted differently to the update than the older, much tweaked prophecies/factions?

Most of the people with problems seem to have problems in Nightfall or with characters from elona, while I (the one that doesn't have it) haven't been affected that much.

But that's just my two cents

That could well be one factor; nice thinking. Though I know of a few people having Nightfall and do not have all (but do have some) of the issues posted.
I saw one player Saturday in a town asking for anyone to join him for a test on the AI. He was asking for people without the "chicken little" effect to join him.
Myself, having the "chicken little" issues didn't join him, but I spoke with him a little. After finally getting a group together, he whispered me and said those without the issues had finally seen it, and many were shocked how bad it was.
The second time out, the "chicken little" effect was gone and the AI was working the way it used to.
The way it varied seems to point to a sneaky bug... and since it's sporatic... it may be hard to trace down.
Now, I know his first group was in Elona. As for the second, I have no idea where he was. I didn't think to ask, but I assume he went to the same area as before... he may have very well gone to Ascalon though...

Str0b0 · Nov 13, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I've noticed odd AI behavior as well. For instance during the consulate docks mission every time I target an enemy monk the monk will run right at the party, usually right into my heros. While this makes taking the monk out much much easier it can't be the way the AI is intended to function. There is definately a bug in there somewhere. AI breaks down to, in simplest terms, a collection of IF/THEN statements. It could be that in the algorithms governing enemy AI there are conflicting IF/THEN statements or improper values in some of the equations.

Lord Xavius · Nov 13, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

I don't have nightfall, and it just struck me that I'm one of the ones thats had almost no trouble with the stated issues. I've had some rubber banding but that's about it. Do you guys think its possible that nightfall was initiated with a different 'base ai' that reacted differently to the update than the older, much tweaked prophecies/factions?

Most of the people with problems seem to have problems in Nightfall or with characters from elona, while I (the one that doesn't have it) haven't been affected that much.

But that's just my two cents

I don't have nightfall and I've been seeing this everywhere. My first video was from tyria and here is another: ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=BwkV6QY05lE ) this one is of the "newly improved" Lornar's Pass where i manage to get by only to lag near the trolls and have the never ending aggro army catch up to me.

MSecorsky · Nov 13, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I haven't noticed any issues whatsoever yet with the AI... perhaps it's just playing styles? See mob, kill mob, mob doesn't chase me.

WasAGuest · Nov 13, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I haven't noticed any issues whatsoever yet with the AI... perhaps it's just playing styles? See mob, kill mob, mob doesn't chase me.

That's how I play as well, but I have really bad issues with the AI. It's also been mentioned that not everyone is having the problems, so it's not a matter of "everyone needs to play the same" (and that's not a flame, as we play alike) to avoid or "work-around" the problem; it's a matter of Anet fixing the problem... which Gaile said they are working on.

Sometimes I approach mobs to kill them, and they all run off. Not just casters or monks, all of them. I stop running after them, and then they might come back to me.
Best and funniest so far was when I went out to solo farm and my "as-small-as possible monk with pigtails" caused three entire groups of mobs to flee. That was cause for some good laughs. - Made funnier, since mobs usually insta-aggro any monks even out of compass range.

As you can see in the post, farming is possible as I've been doing it just fine. It's when I try to play the game through; the glaring AI issues jump up and bite me.

*Darcy* · Nov 13, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I've had the enemy healer running at your group occurence several times, usually when his own group is blocking any retreat for him.

What I've noticed is that if you let him go by forcing your group to target enemy melee/casters, he runs past your group and stands to the side/back, healing his people from behind you.

So I am presuming that his programming directs him to run away but stay within healing area. The AI doesn't limit where he runs though. Devs need to add an IF "players are there"/THEN "don't run in that direction" branching.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 13, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

And STILL some of you can't tell the difference between A.I. issues and server issues..... If you want something fixed at least do some research on what is actually wrong before you complain....

lunksunkunk · Nov 13, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

And STILL some of you can't tell the difference between A.I. issues and server issues..... If you want something fixed at least do some research on what is actually wrong before you complain....

Dude, both Server/AI issues are "issues" regardless of which is which. BOTH need to be fixed. So the complaints are valid to the extent that all of which are still problems. Doesnt matter what category problems belong in, a problem is still a problem.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 13, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

Dude, both Server/AI issues are "issues" regardless of which is which. BOTH need to be fixed. So the complaints are valid to the extent that all of which are still problems. Doesnt matter what category problems belong in, a problem is still a problem.

Did I say that server issues didnt need to be fixed? All I'm saying if you dont know what you're complaining about, it won't get fixed. Too many of you are just screaming "The A.I. sux!!! Change it bak!!!"

garethporlest18 · Nov 13, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Did I say that server issues didnt need to be fixed? All I'm saying if you dont know what you're complaining about, it won't get fixed. Too many of you are just screaming "The A.I. sux!!! Change it bak!!!"

I don't think a boss group re-aggroing on me with me being 2 aggro circles away from him, after having been away from him for 10 minutes and a pretty far distance..is a server issue.

I also don't think Kournan Priests running at me ahead of the guards is a server issue either, as they weren't going in between anyone to get stuck, they just ran at me like they were gonna wand me from up close.